The Pleasure of Thinking Together - A conversation with Jürgen Bock, director of Maumaus - Escola de Artes Visuais, Lisbon
In the sparsely worn down premises at Maumaus, at the same table where the programme’s participants usually gather, I sit down for an interview with Jürgen Bock, who is its director and the driving force behind Maumaus. Maumaus is an independent study programme in art and critical thinking. It is a theoretical course, but with an approach to theory that is different from the Bologna-model. This is a course built purely on curiosity and the participants’ personal development, rather than grades and exams.
A Think-Tank?
Jürgen Bock speaks quickly and enthusiastically and, when answering my first question, he touches on much of what we will talk about during the interview. I ask him to explain the description on their website stating that Maumaus wants to act as a ‘think-tank’. Jürgen Bock starts by resisting this formulation and explains that the website was a condition of funders of Lumiar Cité, the exhibition space attached to the programme. Bock says that they don't want to restrict themselves to any statement but that there is a resemblance to a think-tank. Knowledge production at Maumaus takes place through dialogues between a number of individuals who are expected to contribute based on their own experiences.
However, a think-tank usually has a political agenda. “We are not political, however we are interested in the political and I believe the political can exist in almost anything. Neither are we interested in being an ‘alternative school’, but rather to be a programme of intense production of thought.” says Jürgen Bock.
Organisation
In fact, they do not advertise the school, but expect that those who apply are already familiar with the programme through former students or word of mouth. The programme is normally one year but many choose to continue for a second, sometimes for a third year.
There are no rules or guidelines regarding content of the application, neither is there a deadline. Admission is mostly based on interviews, and Jürgen Bock states that it is equally important to know what the candidates want out of the programme and what they can contribute to the group. For some, this programme is their first art education, but others may already have a master’s degree, if not a PhD.
Maumaus started as a photography school in 1992, but during Jürgen Bock’s management the school has emphasised a theoretical orientation based on group discussions. There are no studios. The class meets about three times a week for conversations and occasional seminars.
Every month the school has up to two guest “lecturers”. She or he usually stays and contributes to the programme for a week or two. Bock occasionally attends the conversations even when he doesn’t lead them.
The actual organization behind Maumaus consists of four people who all have other duties alongside the school. In addition to the programme itself and the exhibition space Lumiar Cité, located in a suburban area of Lisbon, Maumaus also runs an artist-in-residence programme.
Artist-Production
When I ask Jürgen Bock what he hopes that the students get out of the programme, he replies “First of all, we don’t call them students, but participants.” He means that the learning process is not a one-way communication. “I do not know, I hope we get to be in interesting situations” followed by a long warm laugh before he elaborates: “To think and read texts together provides satisfaction even a kind of ‘pleasure’, as Roland Barthes has defined. [...] I do not want to lay a text by Heidegger on the table and explain what it’s about. What I find interesting is to hear what someone who is twenty years younger gets out of the text, to hear his or her interpretation from their specific context.” It is also important that the group consists of people with different perspectives. Not every participant needs to be an artist. The important thing is the motivation, commitment, passion and curiosity, and in the end what both participants and lecturers might get out of the programme.
The Pleasure of Thinking
Bock does not see a paradox in Maumaus having a theoretical orientation and at the same time opposing academization. “We are not an academy. It’s not that we are better or worse than an academy, just that we are different. […] No one attends Maumaus to get a degree or gain academic credits, no one requires you to write a text here, no one requires you to read the texts we have suggested, no one evaluates you, there is nothing paradoxical in this, the motivation comes from somewhere else.”
He further explains “we propose; can we do this together?” Some participants refrain entirely from reading the suggested text and find their own way of retrieving some other specific thing from the programme. “Sometimes people have a desire to write a text and those who wanted to did it, but no one is necessarily expected to. A rather specific proposal was suggested by Harun Farocki (who visited the programme a few weeks before this interview), that participants in the program should produce a one-minute-film on the topic of labour. Half the group found it interesting, and took part in Farocki’s proposal, while the other half abstained. There’s nothing you have to do here, there are no expectations of this then that, to write a text of x numbers of pages, then you get your diploma; everything is driven by the participants’ and lecturers motivations resulting in a programme that is somehow negotiated in each seminar between participants and lecture.”
In Dialogue With the Life We Have Lived so Far
I point out that the texts the participants have read so far this year are much the same as I read during my own art-historical studies. An education I personally describe as neither particularly critical nor creative. These particular texts are constantly circulating in the art-bubble and usually only lead to a critical attitude on an abstract level, or critical in the frame of an academic discussion. Bock supports this thought, but at the same time he points out that Maumaus strives to use texts that are not the most obvious and refers to a recent conversation. When Ruth Wilson Gilmore visited the school we had an exchange of views that resulted in the class reading of the Communist Manifesto.
Bock continues to break down the core of Maumaus’ readings: “a text is a piece of writing that instigates discussion. What we are trying to emphasize is how we can use these texts today, what relevance they have here and now in the centre of Lisbon on this day, in dialogue with the life we have lived so far. [...] A text is a text because of its resistance to a monistic interpretation. Reading texts at Maumaus we seek to become authors, inviting the ‘real’ author to leave. [...] There is no correct reading or understanding of the texts; we want to break down the text for the individual reader and to find a way each person can relate to it based on his or her personal circumstances and experiences.
An Open Agenda
Half of the participants at Maumaus come from Portugal, the other half from abroad, including also guest students from art academies in other countries.
Lecturers however come from all corners of the world. They comprise a mixture of art theorists, researchers from a range of different fields, and artists, both relatively newly established and highly canonized.
I ask how they select these teachers, and why so few come from, or live in Portugal? “
It varies, it’s very intuitive, the selection is based on experience. We always try to be sensitive and consider what might fit best in that year’s programme, every year is different and it invents itself in a way. Therefore, we cannot anticipate exactly how the programme will look in the beginning of the year. There will be continuous shifts and changes based on the particularities and interests of the programme’s participants that are revealed as the year unfolds. We recognise the potentialities of accidents, which could enrich the program.” Likewise, it is important that those attending Maumaus are prepared for ‘detours’ that may change given schedules. He mentions a case that occurred some years ago when the reading of Lytord and Habermas led to Denis Ekpo and post-colonial studies, with the possibility of hands-on experiences in a city such as Lisbon, a former capital of a colonial empire.
“The fact that most lecturers come from other countries is also a practical solution, however paradoxical this may sound, considering the cost of flying them to Lisbon. People from abroad are often more focused on what is happening here, because they are temporarily outside of the on-going expectations of daily life. However some are already here for some other reason, and there is synergy between the program at Maumaus, the residence-programme, and the exhibition space Lumiar Cité. But of course we recognise the context that Lisbon is located on the periphery of Europe, therefore it is important to instigate dialogues with places abroad.”
Art on Distance From its Final Container
Our conversation continues around Lisbon and its art scene, and I try to provoke Jürgen Bock by describing it as vague, uncertain and inverted from society, well aware of my limited knowledge. The reaction of Bock, who moved to Lisbon from Germany in the 1990s, was prompt:“Are the art scenes in London, Berlin or Paris automatically more interesting? I don’t know. The art scene in Berlin is strongly influenced by an aggressive winner attitude and is that interesting? Is what happens at Tate Modern in London more interesting? Of course, you will see a lot of excellent art works there somehow in its final container,but Tate has to articulate its program and its institutional appearance for structural reasons very much in a way that Horkheimer and Adorno foresaw as a kind of ‘Cultural Industry’...”
And he explains: “there are lots of small interesting things happening half-hidden in Lisbon - behind the façades. As an outsider, you must realize that it takes time to get into these scenes. It doesn’t mean it’s less interesting. Maybe the exhibitions you read about in the Lisbon Time Out are not so interesting. In Lisbon you have to make an effort and invest - become a player who gives and takes. You will encounter different paces among very different places, institutional and non-institutional ones; then Lisbon is not fashionable – so far – in the sense that, what may bloom today is out of fashion tomorrow; you can find in Lisbon a certain calm beyond the spectacle that gives you, as someone working in the arts, some space to rethink different forms of manifestation and also non-manifestation. These factors can be distinguish Lisbon from other places that are permanently at pains to loudly state their centerness. ’
Jürgen Bock tells me that at one point there were rumours of a plan for the prestige event Manifesta to take place in Portugal, but there were also people critical with regard to such an event, who realized that the local art scene would only benefit in the very short term from such a costly event, driven by Central European aspirations, devouring local cultural budgets for years. We find in Lisbon a healthy scepticism regarding big promises.
The interview took place in spring 2012. The text was first published in Swedish, in the art-magazine Konsten.net. In 2014 the text was updated by the author Per Brunskog and Jürgen Bock, in connection with the translation into English.
A Think-Tank?
Jürgen Bock speaks quickly and enthusiastically and, when answering my first question, he touches on much of what we will talk about during the interview. I ask him to explain the description on their website stating that Maumaus wants to act as a ‘think-tank’. Jürgen Bock starts by resisting this formulation and explains that the website was a condition of funders of Lumiar Cité, the exhibition space attached to the programme. Bock says that they don't want to restrict themselves to any statement but that there is a resemblance to a think-tank. Knowledge production at Maumaus takes place through dialogues between a number of individuals who are expected to contribute based on their own experiences.
However, a think-tank usually has a political agenda. “We are not political, however we are interested in the political and I believe the political can exist in almost anything. Neither are we interested in being an ‘alternative school’, but rather to be a programme of intense production of thought.” says Jürgen Bock.
Organisation
In fact, they do not advertise the school, but expect that those who apply are already familiar with the programme through former students or word of mouth. The programme is normally one year but many choose to continue for a second, sometimes for a third year.
There are no rules or guidelines regarding content of the application, neither is there a deadline. Admission is mostly based on interviews, and Jürgen Bock states that it is equally important to know what the candidates want out of the programme and what they can contribute to the group. For some, this programme is their first art education, but others may already have a master’s degree, if not a PhD.
Maumaus started as a photography school in 1992, but during Jürgen Bock’s management the school has emphasised a theoretical orientation based on group discussions. There are no studios. The class meets about three times a week for conversations and occasional seminars.
Every month the school has up to two guest “lecturers”. She or he usually stays and contributes to the programme for a week or two. Bock occasionally attends the conversations even when he doesn’t lead them.
The actual organization behind Maumaus consists of four people who all have other duties alongside the school. In addition to the programme itself and the exhibition space Lumiar Cité, located in a suburban area of Lisbon, Maumaus also runs an artist-in-residence programme.
Artist-Production
When I ask Jürgen Bock what he hopes that the students get out of the programme, he replies “First of all, we don’t call them students, but participants.” He means that the learning process is not a one-way communication. “I do not know, I hope we get to be in interesting situations” followed by a long warm laugh before he elaborates: “To think and read texts together provides satisfaction even a kind of ‘pleasure’, as Roland Barthes has defined. [...] I do not want to lay a text by Heidegger on the table and explain what it’s about. What I find interesting is to hear what someone who is twenty years younger gets out of the text, to hear his or her interpretation from their specific context.” It is also important that the group consists of people with different perspectives. Not every participant needs to be an artist. The important thing is the motivation, commitment, passion and curiosity, and in the end what both participants and lecturers might get out of the programme.
The Pleasure of Thinking
Bock does not see a paradox in Maumaus having a theoretical orientation and at the same time opposing academization. “We are not an academy. It’s not that we are better or worse than an academy, just that we are different. […] No one attends Maumaus to get a degree or gain academic credits, no one requires you to write a text here, no one requires you to read the texts we have suggested, no one evaluates you, there is nothing paradoxical in this, the motivation comes from somewhere else.”
He further explains “we propose; can we do this together?” Some participants refrain entirely from reading the suggested text and find their own way of retrieving some other specific thing from the programme. “Sometimes people have a desire to write a text and those who wanted to did it, but no one is necessarily expected to. A rather specific proposal was suggested by Harun Farocki (who visited the programme a few weeks before this interview), that participants in the program should produce a one-minute-film on the topic of labour. Half the group found it interesting, and took part in Farocki’s proposal, while the other half abstained. There’s nothing you have to do here, there are no expectations of this then that, to write a text of x numbers of pages, then you get your diploma; everything is driven by the participants’ and lecturers motivations resulting in a programme that is somehow negotiated in each seminar between participants and lecture.”
In Dialogue With the Life We Have Lived so Far
I point out that the texts the participants have read so far this year are much the same as I read during my own art-historical studies. An education I personally describe as neither particularly critical nor creative. These particular texts are constantly circulating in the art-bubble and usually only lead to a critical attitude on an abstract level, or critical in the frame of an academic discussion. Bock supports this thought, but at the same time he points out that Maumaus strives to use texts that are not the most obvious and refers to a recent conversation. When Ruth Wilson Gilmore visited the school we had an exchange of views that resulted in the class reading of the Communist Manifesto.
Bock continues to break down the core of Maumaus’ readings: “a text is a piece of writing that instigates discussion. What we are trying to emphasize is how we can use these texts today, what relevance they have here and now in the centre of Lisbon on this day, in dialogue with the life we have lived so far. [...] A text is a text because of its resistance to a monistic interpretation. Reading texts at Maumaus we seek to become authors, inviting the ‘real’ author to leave. [...] There is no correct reading or understanding of the texts; we want to break down the text for the individual reader and to find a way each person can relate to it based on his or her personal circumstances and experiences.
An Open Agenda
Half of the participants at Maumaus come from Portugal, the other half from abroad, including also guest students from art academies in other countries.
Lecturers however come from all corners of the world. They comprise a mixture of art theorists, researchers from a range of different fields, and artists, both relatively newly established and highly canonized.
I ask how they select these teachers, and why so few come from, or live in Portugal? “
It varies, it’s very intuitive, the selection is based on experience. We always try to be sensitive and consider what might fit best in that year’s programme, every year is different and it invents itself in a way. Therefore, we cannot anticipate exactly how the programme will look in the beginning of the year. There will be continuous shifts and changes based on the particularities and interests of the programme’s participants that are revealed as the year unfolds. We recognise the potentialities of accidents, which could enrich the program.” Likewise, it is important that those attending Maumaus are prepared for ‘detours’ that may change given schedules. He mentions a case that occurred some years ago when the reading of Lytord and Habermas led to Denis Ekpo and post-colonial studies, with the possibility of hands-on experiences in a city such as Lisbon, a former capital of a colonial empire.
“The fact that most lecturers come from other countries is also a practical solution, however paradoxical this may sound, considering the cost of flying them to Lisbon. People from abroad are often more focused on what is happening here, because they are temporarily outside of the on-going expectations of daily life. However some are already here for some other reason, and there is synergy between the program at Maumaus, the residence-programme, and the exhibition space Lumiar Cité. But of course we recognise the context that Lisbon is located on the periphery of Europe, therefore it is important to instigate dialogues with places abroad.”
Art on Distance From its Final Container
Our conversation continues around Lisbon and its art scene, and I try to provoke Jürgen Bock by describing it as vague, uncertain and inverted from society, well aware of my limited knowledge. The reaction of Bock, who moved to Lisbon from Germany in the 1990s, was prompt:“Are the art scenes in London, Berlin or Paris automatically more interesting? I don’t know. The art scene in Berlin is strongly influenced by an aggressive winner attitude and is that interesting? Is what happens at Tate Modern in London more interesting? Of course, you will see a lot of excellent art works there somehow in its final container,but Tate has to articulate its program and its institutional appearance for structural reasons very much in a way that Horkheimer and Adorno foresaw as a kind of ‘Cultural Industry’...”
And he explains: “there are lots of small interesting things happening half-hidden in Lisbon - behind the façades. As an outsider, you must realize that it takes time to get into these scenes. It doesn’t mean it’s less interesting. Maybe the exhibitions you read about in the Lisbon Time Out are not so interesting. In Lisbon you have to make an effort and invest - become a player who gives and takes. You will encounter different paces among very different places, institutional and non-institutional ones; then Lisbon is not fashionable – so far – in the sense that, what may bloom today is out of fashion tomorrow; you can find in Lisbon a certain calm beyond the spectacle that gives you, as someone working in the arts, some space to rethink different forms of manifestation and also non-manifestation. These factors can be distinguish Lisbon from other places that are permanently at pains to loudly state their centerness. ’
Jürgen Bock tells me that at one point there were rumours of a plan for the prestige event Manifesta to take place in Portugal, but there were also people critical with regard to such an event, who realized that the local art scene would only benefit in the very short term from such a costly event, driven by Central European aspirations, devouring local cultural budgets for years. We find in Lisbon a healthy scepticism regarding big promises.
The interview took place in spring 2012. The text was first published in Swedish, in the art-magazine Konsten.net. In 2014 the text was updated by the author Per Brunskog and Jürgen Bock, in connection with the translation into English.